In this episode we sit down with Ray Goodlett, a pastor at Redemption Hill Church in Richmond, Virginia. We talk through the Core4 pillars and dive into his professional soccer career, parenting and some amazing resources for the study of American history and specifically American Black history.
Bourbon – W.L Weller Special Reserve Bourbon
Background: Ray is married and has three daughters. Both of Ray’s parents are from Jamaica and from an early age Ray began playing soccer.
beFIT/beDRIVEN: Ray played college soccer at Howard, the same school that his father attended and later became a teacher. During his time at Howard, he studied Chemistry, became a captain of the soccer team and began to realize that playing at a professional level was a real possibility. After graduation in 1998, Ray began his professional soccer career playing for the Hershey Wildcats, DC United (MLS) and finishing his career with the Richmond Kickers.
beNOBLE: Ray became a Christian in college and transitioned from professional soccer to becoming a pastor after feeling called to serve God and utilize his gift of teaching. Ray and his wife Heather are dedicated to making an impact in their community of Richmond, Virginia. Ray’s biggest driving force and motivating factor is to never breaking a promise to wife and 3 daughters. It is the upmost importance for him to say yes to kids when they ask for his time.
beCHILL: Ray loves spending time with his wife Heather and he loves to read. Resources that Ray recommends listed below.
- Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem
- Primary sourced documents
- teachingamericanhistory.org
- Anything by Frederick Douglass
- blackpast.org
- Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell. Recommends reading chapter 3 – “The Real History of Slavery.”
Podcast Transcription:
Have you ever thought about making podcast with thought, probably too hard to get started. Couldnt be further from the truth when you use anchor. First of all, its free. So, check off box number one. It has easy-to-use, creation tools on your browser or your phone, Acura distributor podcast for you and you can make money. No matter how many listeners you have, it really is a One-Stop shop for all of your podcast knees. So stop delaying and download the free anchor app or go to Anchor. FM to get started. Welcome back to another episode of core for life. Ive got a special one here with my brother-in-law, Raymond Goodlett, glad to have him out here in Ohio with us. Hes hes from Richmond, Virginia and hes a former professional soccer player and current pastor at Redemption Hill, so were good. Were glad to have them on dig deep into some of his background and some of the things are important to him in his life and so yeah, glad to have your way. Im glad to be here so Ray they know. So I can have my sister on. Neither of them are our big bourbon drinkers thats okay but they know that we do a little bourbon each time. So this time were going with Weller its a very good cheaper cheaper bourbon but its a its a good one. So thats the thats the bourbon for this podcast. Self will enjoy a little bit. You guys can have your water and Saul good. So Ray just wanted to start things off here by give it a little background on yourself, your family career just a little bit there and well dig through some more of that as we go. So, family is interesting. Just growing up. I grew up in Maryland. Three brothers. So, it was four of us as kids. I was the second of four, you know? So my parents were both from Jamaica. So they came up to America in the early 1970s and they came up independently. They didnt meet until they got to Washington, DC. Thats where they met. So, my father came up to attend Howard University, so he did that and eventually graduated with a degree in mathematics there and kept pursuing that through the graduate level and then he just took a teaching job at Howard University. While that was going on, my mother had come up she followed her mother. So my grandmother on my mothers side she followed her up from Jamaica and that was something they did. My grandmother came up first and started working as a domestic servant in a home there. In Maryland, Bethesda Maryland, and my mother and some of her siblings started coming up one by one to join her and so thats sort of how my family got to this country. My mother and my father met at a party in Washington DC. There was some party connected to Howard University. My dad was there, my mother was there with one of her sisters and my dad, the way my dad tells a story, my mother was being pursued by some guy that my dad didnt like very much. And my mother was refusing to dance with this guy and he was not taking no for an answer. And then my father came up and said, I think the young lady said she doesnt want to dance, Valiant the step in there and look at my mother to see if thats true. And she just kind of goes along with it. So well, thats not what your father believed, whatever. The Tell they ended up meeting. He ended up dancing with her that night. They started talkin. And then then, all I know. Is it later on, theyre married in 1975 and I was I was born a year later. All right. Awesome. You know, one thing I was going to mention to I like about these podcasts is a fact that Ive known you were just talkin for, almost nineteen years now. And, you know, Im not always the most emotional type of guy and always ask in the most questions about things. Besides weve learned that through this podcast, we get to talk with people that are, you know, influential in our lives in different ways and we get to ask some questions that we dont always, you know, ask and get to know you. So, again, Im looking forward to myself just getting to know you a little bit more. I got to know story about your parents and you know, how you now, thats a bad how they came over. So, you know, again, I appreciate you sharing some of that. You know what wed like to do here with the core for life is go through our four pillars be fit Driven bino will be chill asking questions through there and then obviously dig into how those are affected in your life so you know Id be remiss if I didnt start the beef, it pillar off with talking a little bit about your soccer career. So can you give us a little background on where it all started for you and when you had to give up the dream soccer career at so I I did play soccer eventually at the professional level so I started as a six-year-old I get my parents were from Jamaica. So in Jamaica, thats the national sport. The big sport. The second one would be Cricket, all right, but youre in America now playing soccer. Just kind of came very naturally culturally for us. And so I started playing when I was six years old, really 5 my older. Rohan was playing on a team. They started when he was 6 years old, just a little area soccer league up in Montgomery County, Maryland, Montgomery, soccer incorporated, or MSI. I think its still still running. Anyway, he started playing and I got to practice with his team. I was younger, but my parents would bring me along and I would practice with their team and they would beat me up. Those kids were a lot bigger than me and a lot faster, but I got to learn a lot. By the time I started playing with people my own age. It seems a lot easier, you know. And so I started playing when I was six years old and I remember that season, we played six games. And I say, I scored five goals in each of my first two games, and then four goals in the remaining four, four games for girls each. So, I left that with a lock cost for the realize, like Mom better than most people. I move me up to this league, where everybody was that good? And I guess I lost every game that year after never losing a game, my first season I have the worst attitude. I mean, I was just all my teammates are so bad, all their fault. But that thats sort of how it started for me is just playing in that little rec league. And then eventually, I just started playing for my my little elementary school. I went to a Catholic school in Maryland, call st. Andrew the apostle. So I started playing for that school. Theyre pretty well, theyre the most famous player in the most famous student from that school. In terms of soccer, is actually a kid named oguchi onyewu who ended up playing for the Mens National Team in the World Cup. He holds that title for us now but it was just neat. And, you know, I came all the way up through there through high school and eventually went to Howard University. Played soccer. There was one of the captains of that team. You always had recognition going up through the ranks by the time I got the college in 1994. It was it was starting to look realistic. That if I wanted to play after college, I might have that opportunity you know. So I kind of talk that way. It was always school first for me to study chemistry, in college, but but lo and behold by the time, 1996 rolled around about two years. In, for me into my college career, they started the Major League Soccer here in America, you know? So I was in the DC area DC United was our area team. So I was a big DC United fan, you know, its fun to watch those guys. A couple of those guys. I knew about had seen had played against, they were, you know, some of them were maybe seniors in my freshman year. I went to watch some of them. And it was just really nice or after. I graduated in 98, I eventually went up and played a year of minor league soccer in Hershey Pennsylvania now. So I got to play there for the Hershey wild cats. We, we played at Hersheypark that was on the whole lot of fun and they are. So I got used to doing that. I got the opportunity to do that with my cousin Gregory Simmons. He was on that team as well. I played with me in college and then in Hershey and then I think a couple of people on DC Uniteds team, got injured that year or away. They were away doing something else with the national team and they needed to call up some minor league players to come play on a particular weekend. So they came and saw a game that we were playing in Hershey and they needed a Defender and after the end of that game, that came up to my coaching Hershey and said, wed like to take that Ray. Good luck guy. They knew about me because I was in. I was in DC at Howard University and so they came and they saw on there, like it will take him. He looks good enough out there. So I actually got to, to go up that year. This was in 1999 and play one game. I should play. I was there on the manager for the Nightingale account. Anybody else on the roster? I was on the roster that game we went up to New England and play at Foxboro Stadium. Theyre against the New England. Revolution was a great experience. DC United went on to win the championship that year, and they gave me a nice little winners. A sweatshirt, you know, it got to do your part of it. I was part of it. They actually they actually sent me a little t-shirt and I think it was that theres a little money involved in there as well. Nothing big. But that was fun. I got to do that and then the following season a roster spot opened up and they they actually called me up permanently and I got to play there in DC for that 2000. Beginning of 2001 sees, you got some, got some playing time that youre like actually got a little bit of playing time. I was never at the top of the roster, you knows my professional career and have to use career very Loosely, but it was just so much fun to play for the team that I began as a fan of you and to have family and friends in the crowd cheering me on and then getting the sharing that it was a lot of fun out of your professional career. Eclipses any of that. Weve never ever played a position to know only when I was a little kid but the more I I grew up and I just defender or midfielder was my my most helpful position for on on any team. That was my favorite position as well. What about, what about the Richmond Kickers? You play a spade and spend a little time there as well and now that is that considered lets consider professional as well. Write the league down from MLS or I would I would consider it minor league again. It was the same level as the Hershey team that I played for previously hookah. So her she to DC what sort of my way up the escalator DC to Richmond was when I got cut from United. I went down and played with the Richmond Kickers. Thats what I remembered. I got to see the game that you played for the kickers. How long did you play with them? Thats right. I played with the kickers. It was about 5 season. Yep. So starting in 2001 2002-2003 and then I took a break before season. I came back and played one more time after the 2003 season. I played in 2006. After I had, I was engaged to my wife. My now wife Heather at that point in it at that level. So is that is that your full-time gig then? At that point like 4:00 at that level or are you working side job doing other things that at the same time? Good question. So I was young enough at that point. I was early twenties, so when I was playing with the c, I mean Im making less than $50,000 a year. Yeah, but I was living at home with my parents while I was doing it. So I really did a lot for a guy who just out of school and no real expenses. So I did that for a little bit there that year was DC, when I went down and played with Richmond, I wasnt making that much at all, you know, so they do. They they paid you for six months basically during the season. So that was sort of like a part-time gig and then for the rest of the year to during the something thats coming or full-time thing. Then I supplemented with some soccer. Coaching as well as some tutoring. I did it a local high school so I tutor math. And so I pieced together a salary that way I can make it work. Yeah, the time to do it again. Out of single, it was easy enough to do, it was a lot of fun, you know, that might be a good transition to from, theyre talkin about other things that you were doing along with soccer and try and kind of transitioning. Your your career at that point in time to what you were going to be doing in the future. You know, our if we were going in order of our pillars, we can probably talk about be driven next which you obviously have a ton of drive but dont make sense to start with the B Noble pillar. Since everything. Youve done in your career has screamed a lot of nobility to me from what Ive seen. Can you walk through a brief history of where you started after you transition, maybe from soccer and where you a kind of how you ended up as a pastor at Redemption Hill? Yeah, no, great question. So this kind of goes back to my time at College as well, when I was at Howard University, in my senior year, that was where I would say, I actually became a Christian. You know, where I would say I moved from someone who thought he was, always a Christian to someone who realized he was not because I started reading the Bible, and I actually heard Jesus speaking for himself about what it meant to follow him, and I very quickly piece together, that, that was not describing me and, and so, I actually became a Christian that year, as I was reading the Bible with others and listening to Jesus and wanting to, to Really surrender my life to him. And so that was my senior year of college. And I played my last season. Like, that is a Christian. And from that moment on from actually surrendering my life to Christ and becoming a follower of his, I just wanted to serve him in whatever way he wanted me to serve him. And and so, I had sort of a, a gift to be able to teach different things, whether it was math or any or any other thing. I would be tutoring people all the time, but I developed this desire to teach people what I was learning. As I was reading the Bible to teach them Gods word and so that that never left me or so even when I went into playing professional soccer, Its like everything else I did, including professional soccer became just a way for me to meet people so that I could tell them about Jesus. Did you was it anything specific that have gotten you to turn your life to Christ at that point? I had you growing up in the faith that all? I mean, just out of that can all come about. Yeah, Id grown up going to a Catholic School in and said there was some sort of Christian religion and connection to it, that was always there. So, I believe the lot of those ideas when it came to Jesus is the son of God, he died on the cross for our sins. He rose from the dead. I believe all that information. It just never really connected with my heart and change anything about the way that I lived. When, when I was in my senior year of college, there was a guy named herb herb Johnson the third. He came up to me one day and just said, hey man, do you want to study the Bible? I got I literally dont even think you said. Hello when I met him and I just I said yes. That sounds crazy to me, but just two months before that I was doing a summer internship at the National Institutes of National Institute of Standards and technology in Gaithersburg, Maryland, part of part of what I was doing in chemistry and I met a lady there named Mary who was the best friend of my supervisor and Mary was a lady in her mid-40s and she sat down with me at lunch one day and said you seemed kind of spiritual. I saw you praying Do you know, do you do read Gods word much and I didnt even know what she meant by that phrase, Gods word. And I said, what do you mean? I thought was kind of strange. I figured God has to have more than one word, which one? I dont know what she. She said the Bible and I and I could tell now looking back on it, she knew at that moment. Do this, this kid doesnt even know what Im talking about. And so, she said, man, every day every day I just spend a little time with God in his word in the Bible and it makes such a big difference and if I go through a day without that, I feel like Im missing something. Somethings off I left that conversation with Mary knowing that theres something she had that I did not. And I left with a desire to have what she had in terms of her relationship with God, and it was two months later that I met herb and he said, you want to study the Bible and I said, Yes, actually Ive been wanting to for a couple of months, but I dont have one. Do you have a Bible? And he said, yes. And so he came over with a friend that night, it was a Tuesday and then that night. And then Thursday, he came back and so will come Tuesday and Thursday will come tonight and Thursday to read with you. And I, so why not Wednesday. And he said, well, because Wednesday night, we go to church because I go to church on Wednesday, what kind of church is this, but thats where it started for me, you know, just reading the Bible hearing what God had to say, comparing my own life to that and realizing that I had need of what the Bible is calling repentance. I needed to repent and give my life to Christ. Thats how it started. Looking back at those times, you can see where your kind of primed like by that, that interaction with Mary and just looking back to see if this guy came up to me before that and said, hey you want to study the Bible, you feel like talking about but you should have seen her. I would have given. You had that conversation that you can look back and see and God was working on my heart already just in that in that moment there but then following up a couple months later and its primed you for that and yeah lets jump into that thats really cool. Yeah and it its really shaped my whole life since then I mean this is over 20 years ago. And now I realize, what? How many people are? Just two conversations away. From giving their life to Christ and an eternal difference being made in their life. Thats where I was. I was two conversations away. So thats kind of a big thing that behind our kind of our mission statement and our theme of core for life is core for life whats missing in yours, you know, and we talked about the fit and be driven and be Noble and be chill. And, you know, theres those aspects that can be missing in your life thats making you complete in one way or the other, but we all know. I mean, the main thing thats missing in a lot of peoples lives are Jesus and that influence, that that you can give. And, you know, thats the main thing. Were like you said, if if you can get people to just open up to the fact that, yeah, I feel like there is something missing, you know, thats all you need to hopefully have that conversation that can change somebodys life forever, you know forever and thats what we hope to, you know, mainly gain from this. Yeah, we love to talk to people and Drink some bourbon suburban and to help help people out and with different tips and things in those different areas of our lives. But ultimately, we love for people to be able to hear from people like you who have gone through similar things, that we just take some of those that the willingness to have an open mind and can affect the rest of your lives now. So appreciate you sharing that, you know what? Obviously youll be coming a Christian and going through that hole and transition. Its not all you know, its not all happiness and rainbows. I mean, what what types of challenges have you had to overcome through that time. And how is that really shaped Who You Are? Very early on. I remember feeling how different was to leave. My former life and everything that seemed normal One of the earliest examples would be when when I I became a Christian in college and, you know, a week and came around, my friends would say to me, hey, were going down to this place. This party were going to do what weve always done. And I just remember feeling that, that sort of internal conflict where part of me wanted to go and the other part of me realized, This is not something that Jesus would approve of any more that the kind of party. I was going to say you could go to some parties for sure. And it would be fine fact that you know, we read in the Bible. Jesus goes to parties and has a great time and people ran out of wine. He made more, I was going to in my reasons for going very different. And so I just realized, you know, this is not for me anymore and one of my friends, just it, whats going on. You know, whats happened, is something wrong with us and I just said, no, its not that. He said, why dont you want to come? And I said, what? Let me, let me correct. Something real quick. I do want to come, I want to go. I want to do some of the same things weve always done, Ive really enjoyed all of that. For the first time. Do I have this sense in me? Thats something about it. Isnt right? And it wouldnt be pleasing. The Jesus, it wouldnt be pleasing to my God. And so Im working through this conflict and I just told him was like, you know, Im not going to go this time, but I wasnt going to turn to be judgmental to wear my friends either, you know, it. And I think, in fact, I know one of them in particular, my roommate appreciated, that he came back and explain to us years later, he was getting married. He had become a Christian on his own when he moved to Atlanta. And when he first told me about it, I thought he was, I thought he was making fun of me, but it was real. After you kept talking, I realized this guy is really becoming Christian and he started telling me the story and one of the things he said was I always appreciated Ray how you you didnt throw it in our face. Which I did do that to some people, but apparently, I didnt do that to him. So he appreciated that youre never one to back down from a debate For Better or Worse, many times worse. But anyway, so that that was one of my biggest challenges coming out of. That was the sense of wanting to do things that I realize. Now, were still sinful, they were sinful, but at the same time, I had to even greater desire to please my Lord. And so I have to work through that. No I was a huge challenge. Got it here to Hot Topic right now which is a race in our culture you know you you obviously have a Jamaican parents, you coming over here from there youre married to my to my sister Heather. And yeah Im sure as an interracial couple you guys probably have encountered some challenges maybe some chili Just threw out, obviously, your life, just growing up as a black man. I mean, tell us a little bit about that. I mean, what type of challenges have you faced their casino? And the biggest one, I often tell people, they asked me that I said, yeah, I dont mean we have a it almost didnt work. I mean, we were just so different, you know, we talked about it all the time, shes an Eagles fan, Im a Cowboys fan, go away. And skin color is not the big thing, but cultural differences, where you really run into some potential in a conflict producers in your marriage. So very early on it was funny, we were dating and we were talking on the phone and I told her you know, how Ill Ill be over real soon. Im coming soon. And then I get there, 3 hours later and Heather is looking at me saying, why did you lie to me? You said, you were coming soon and I looked at her and said, and Im here in the Jamaican culture. If we say soon come, or Im coming soon, I mean, he could be 5 hours from then nobody thinks about it, you know. So I have to learn things like that on a more serious level, you know. I think its, its still just difficult for people at times to see a married couple. Where they have different skin colors and two into imagine, I think most people imagine, there are huge difficulties that attend that situation. And I guess for us because were both, were both Christians and we were both like-minded in that way. Most of the real difficulties that couples would would encounter. Across, I will take cultural lines. We havent had as many of those, and Im even learning more about that. Now, Im learning that a lot of the cultural things in terms of beliefs and value systems where you might have bigger differences between certain white Americans and certain black Americans. as, as the son of Jamaican immigrants, There are significant cultural, and and belief in value system difference is sometimes between West Indians. Like my parents and black Americans, even though my skin color would be the same, the cultures werent exactly the same, you know? And then you, you, you realize that not all black Americans are monolithic in that sense either in. So, Cultural differences to me are the are the are the big issue as opposed to skin color. Sure. So, you know, width of the hot topic of race right now. I mean, from a high-level perspective, I know we were talking a little bit about this last night, but what did your overall thoughts on whats being said, right now in the media? And yeah, I dont need, I dont need to go down a rabbit hole here with you, but maybe just some, some high points on just where things are, where things are at and whats being said, and your what your thoughts are at on it as a as a black man, but also as a Christian man in the pasture and, you know, just where you at with it. That is a very good question. Thats certainly a multi-layered answer to that. So I think on a positive side I think it is really good and really exciting. That so many people for the very first time in their lives are really paying attention to this issue and a really open to the idea that things may be very different. For some people who are cultural minorities in America that theyre there, maybe reality. You know, that have not been considered where it may very well be that some people are starting out in a very disadvantaged position. And that disadvantage does not show itself completely to that individual, whose disadvantage. It may not be his or her fault, his or her familys fault. There may be contributing factors that come from outside of them and their own behaviors and own their own choices. There can actually be real oppression, that is taking place intentional oppression that time sand and so people are at least looking into that and asking questions. But thats exciting to me, right? Because people are asking me now so if you get pulled over by a police officer how do you respond? And so Ill tell them like when I call my wife it was midnight sometime ago. Maybe a year ago we were in I was driving around dropping off a kid that we serve to the foundation that my wife started and I dropped him off at someones house. I was coming back home and a cop was pulling me over. Well, instead of stopping right away. I actually kept driving a little bit more to get to a well-lit area. Because thats a survival Technique we learned. I had to drive and get to a well-lit area so that people can see whats going on before the police officer gets there. I put my hands on the steering wheel and I dont move, I want to make sure he can always see my hands. When he asked me to get my license and registration. I asked for special permission to move my hands and go into my glove compartment. In fact, I offered to let him go in there himself, right? So, those are things that are probably common in the experience of black people. When interacting with law enforcement, it doesnt say anything about that. Particular officer, I may not be threatened at all because of, you know that particular officer may not be a threat to me at all, but I dont know. You know, some of my hope and my job is to get home that night. So you dont move it on here in a little bit to be driven, pillar that youre talking. A lot of great topics that weve got going on here. You clearly tell that youre youre driven in a lot of ways in your life. And what whats what is the biggest driving force right now in your life? I mean I think I know the answer but maybe just how does that play out in your life? Biggest driving force in my life. I I want to make it through this life. Never breaking a promise to my wife or my three daughters. That is without question. The biggest driving force in my life. That is my biggest ambition. Id never want to break a promise to my wife or my three daughters. I want them to think differently, thinking about my daughters now. I want them to think differently and positively about men in general in a world where we often speak about, The consequences of living in a patriarchal society and the idea of men, abusing power and strength. I want them to think differently about men in general, I want them to think differently about husbands. I want them to be able to look at me and know, something of what they should be looking for. You know, I want them to see Pastors differently. Since Im a pastor, I want them to see. No contradiction between what they see of me in church when were gathered. And what they see of me at home You know, where is sometimes? We here? About kids who who see what they believe to be at least pieocracy in their, in their parents. So that thats sort of a big driving force, I would add to that and this goes back to the last thing we were talking about. I feel in some ways Im uniquely positioned to help people work through the conversation on race. This cultural moment that were having in this country. And so I want people to be able to engage in the topic. To open themselves up to become aware of certain. Peoples experiences may be in this country, but I want them to be able to do that in a way. That doesnt require them to go all the way to the point of believing. Like one of the things that said now is it believing that all white people are inherently right racist and however thats defined by people today you know? So there are theres a whole lot to that whole conversation. But I want to be with Jesus talks about in Matthew Chapter 5, where he says, blessed are the peacemakers because they will be called children of God. I want to be a peacemaker in this time to try to bring people together. You know, its a show them what Jesus is actually done that, even if the rest of the world is being divided on the issue of race, Inside of the church, you will get where Jesus died for us and brought us together as one. It doesnt need to to separate us at all. Had a great point that you made me. Do you want to not only keep all your promises to your daughters into why? If thats, thats an incredible go. Ive never actually thought of that like actual thought process of laying out that goal. But yeah, absolutely. I definitely want to do that but also trying to keep the same view of the pastor on the pulpit as a post office, help it and I think you mentioned that that apocracy is what turns a lot of people away from Christianity from the get-go. Like they, they hear all these stories about these megachurch pastors who yard, stealing money behind the scenes, or having these Affairs behind the scenes. And I just think that the way you stated that and the, the just the thought process, the one behind it is, is pretty incredible. One wish a lot more pastors had that goal and they might, they might but I think just being able to be approachable and being on this podcast on just being a voice for, that is really cool. So you know, everything that youve been talking about it, it reminds me of You dont just conversations. Ive had with Heather over the years, you guys are always very involved. A lot of different things going on, feels like every night of the week and, you know, whether it be with your church or counseling or with the youth or sessions that you guys are doing with with different people and Heather with your defy Foundation, which will get into another podcast, you know, its its a lot going on. You obviously have to be very motivated to it. Cant keep up with all of that kind of stuff. I mean, what what keeps you motivated? What what are the things that you do to to keep you? And Ill keep that drive going for all that? This is where. Theres probably the immediate answer that comes to my mind and then theres the heres what I want to be the answer. I just be real. Ill tell you, one of the biggest things that keeps me motivated. Again my three daughters, I am increasingly understanding just how important a fathers role is. In the eyes of any child and it may be may be particularly in the life of a young girl. And every single day I want to get up and I want them to see. A dad who connects with Jesus. A dad who actually is change and transform and led and guided by what God thinks What God Says Through the Bible. And that that is a huge motivating force. For me, one of the other things, thats really big for me is, I actually believe that ever since Jesus came into the world, and offered people Grace, the opportunity to be forgiven and to be welcomed. As part of his eternal family, I believe that that is still going on. And there are places in the world, not only people in the world who have yet to experience that Grace and forgiveness. But places in the world where, as far as we can tell that message of mercy and forgiveness has never gone. Theres a place in Romans chapter 16 verse 5 where the Apostle Paul is the saying greet these people in and greet? These people for me and he mentions this person epigenetics And he says, greet eppinette has, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia? And for me, there are many epenesa so to speak. In all of these different parts of the world are groups of people who have yet to see their first convert to Christ. And Im sorry, Im just very motivated to pray to that end in to be a part in, whatever way I can, to supporting efforts to support efforts to go in to find Empanada, finding Empanada, sza is a thing, for me, finding that the net is in every part of the world where he still exist, Already got two daughters. Im, Im interested. How do you build into him? Whats special ways that you connect with them on a regular basis? Im Im looking for advice in my own life. This is where I disappoint you and say, so am I? You know. So I think and I dont, I dont do this as well as Id like to But I have been held by someone else. Who told me at the very least, one thing that youll thank yourself for years down the road. Not all moments of connection or equal. When one of my daughters comes to me and says, daddy will you play this with me? Daddy, will you do this with me when they ask and initiate that moment? I always want to say yes. I want to prioritize that over anything else, thats important. And I think simply saying yes, when they come to us like that is a big deal. I think its a big deal. Thats great advice and you mentioned previously that you wanted to be an example. You wanted to show them how youre walking with. God, how your how your, your taking time, spending time with God, can you give us some practical tips on how you do that like went and how do you show them that? How do you show them that youre walking with God? Yeah, I think my wife is even better at this but trying to without it being A sort of show or some exhibition. You dont want it to the track from the genuineness of the moment, but trying to let my private Devotion to God be visible. So sometimes its just taking my Bible walking out to the front porch and they know Im out there. Reading my Bible, things like that, you know where daddy is spending some time with God. Now there are moments where they would they would actually compete with with God for that time. And I might say something like Ill Ill talk with you about that right after I am finished. Give me a moment. Just to spend some time listening to God. You know, an answer things like that I think are are really helpful and important. Thats great. Thanks, were at think were, were probably getting short on time and we appreciate all the info. But you know what, I do also remember this. If we didnt wrap things up with, you know, all the stuff you were talking about is if thats a hard stop being a dad, being a husband, a pastor, soccer player in all that stuff is hard. Putting a lot of hard work for that. Sometimes you guys just relax a little bit of a what what type of things do you like to do to chill out? Relax but her be with the family by yourself me. What are you guys like to do? I am most relaxed when Im just sitting at home not having to think about any of the stuff you just mentioned so I could do anything else at that point. I think my favorite thing is just sit on the couch with my wife, Heather watch Cowboys game and we can just talk or not talk just to be in each others presence and not have any of the other pressures of Life, put on us. At that moment, just to sit there. I like to read, Ill read it. Its not Light reading, but I really enjoy reading things. That challenge me intellectually and its its sort of recharges me, and refreshes me, you know? So Im not a huge fiction person per se, but I will just read books and books and books about what others will be saying about things like race. And, you know, the history of America. I love reading American history. Can you, we always To put a few references on our, on our page. After these, can you just name a few maybe that stick out to you of resources that youve read. That have really helped you in your life. So in terms of just understanding what the Bible teaches about different topics, Ive really been helped by a book called Systematic Theology by Wayne grudem. Let me see a big book, but its its short chapters, you know? And it does a great job of saying, heres what I Believe, Christian should believe. Heres what some Christians believe. Heres what other Christians believe, but heres where I stand and it just I think he does a great job with that book. We talked about that one with Joe, or was that a different one? I love that book as well to write up all the other version of Earth, a great book me a lots of other things to me and just in terms of I think reading American history in that sort of thing. I mean, Ive just loved Studying some of the Civil Rights Movement by reading, I like to read primary source documents. So instead I cut out the middleman because I think I think theres just a lot too much bias that comes out a lot Gets Lost in Translation from both sides you know so I hear someone cite a paragraph from this person here and Ill say thank you very much. Let me go find the entire speech, right? And Ill actually read that. So some of the sources are good websites that people can check out. There is a site called teaching American history. Dot-com teaching American history, you can find primary source documents. Its fascinating to read. What some of these founding fathers of said, when others like Frederick Douglass of said, I would tell people just go read everything. Frederick Douglass has ever said, it is past. O RG where you again primary source documents about African-American history and cut out the middleman go read those things for yourself. I will literally read entire Supreme Court opinions as well as the dissenting opinions. It is fascinating to hear what these people have said, how they process things where they disagreed, but to see the respect they show for each other in the disagreement. These are some of the top legal minds and theyre talking about their position on the biggest cultural issues of our day. It is, it is incredible. Id recommend it to anybody Supreme Court. Gov plow just diving into all the past Supreme Court right from the horses mouth. Cut out the middleman Media stuff, and if anyones interested in the history of slavery, Globe boy, to be better, informed on how we ought to view what happened in this country. I would recommend one book in particular and one chapter from that book, actually the book is written by Thomas Sowell. And its called we are title, but it its called black rednecks and white liberals. Chapter 3 in that book is entitled, the real history of slavery. It is one of those fascinating chapters, anyone will read awesome. Very cool stuff for looking for. You can see again, try to get in the beach Hill pillar with us and we just reverted, right? Thats all this out of the reading Supreme Court, case background and everything that youre going through. So thanks for taking the time to write. Thank you guys for having so much. Thanks for checking out the core for Life podcast. If you like what youre hearing, March, tell a friend about us, share a link for a podcast on social media or get in touch with us a tour for life or core for life.com. Thats core four life.com catch next time. Google for life.